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              <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is one of 52 stoles donated to the Shower of Stoles collection by members and staff of Church of the Covenant.  Although each of the stoles is unique, all of them are tied together by the inclusion of a piece cloth from a common bolt of blue and ivory material somewhere in the stole.  Covenant is both a More Light and Open and Affirming Congregation.  Their strong and public advocacy on behalf of LGBT persons in the life and leadership of the church has drawn many LBGT persons to become a part of the Covenant church family.  Their 52 stoles represent the largest subset of stoles given to the collection by any one congregation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Church of the Covenant, a federated United Church of Christ and Presbyterian Church, is steeped in history.  Located just off the Boston Commons, the Gothic revival building erected in the mid-1800's was one of the first churches built in the Back Bay area.  In the 1890's the sanctuary was completely redecorated by Tiffany Glass and Decorating Co., including the creation of an extraordinary set of Tiffany stained-glass windows and a chandelier that is said to be the first electrified light installed in a public building by Thomas Edison.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Covenant's history of social justice and human rights work is equally rich.  When I visited Covenant, I was intrigued to learn that the church was a designated stop along the "Boston Women's Heritage Trail."  One of Covenant's members, Abbie Child, was the head of the Women's Board of Missions of the Congregational Church in the late 1800's.  Another member, Dr. Elsa Meder, was one of the first women ordained as an elder in the Presbyterian Church.  Elizabeth Rice and Alice Hageman, ordained in 1974 and 1975 respectively, were the first women to serve as pastors at a Back Bay church.  When they were joined by Donna Day Lower, the church became the only one in the United States with three women clergy.  Since opening the "Women's Lunch Place" in 1982, the church has served as a haven for poor women and their children.  It is fitting, then, that one of the Tiffany windows is "Four Women of the Bible," including Miriam, Deborah, Mary of Bethany, and Dorcas.  Covenant remains on the forefront of work for equality and justice, and is active in the LGBT Welcoming movement in the Boston area and beyond.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Martha Juillerat&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Founder, Shower of Stoles Project&lt;br /&gt;2006&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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              <text>This stole is offered by the West-Park Presbyterian Church in New York City on behalf of Katherine Poethig, a candidate for Ministry and a member of West-Park.</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;THE REV. KATHLEEN BUCKLEY&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;was ordained as a Minister of Word and Sacrament in 1986 and served as pastor of the First Presbyterian Church of Watervliet, New York, until February, 1993.  After a long struggle she came out to the session and congregation and resigned her position.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kathleen continues to use her remarkable gifts for ministry everywhere in her life.  She says "I am more than ever convinced that God is wild - and the Spirit will not be tamed by any human effort."&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Seeking God's Wisdom group at First United Presbyterian Church, Troy, New York, made this stole to honor Kathleen's courage, honesty, friendship, and faith.  Kathleen's story, One Step at a Time, appears in the book Called Out:  The Voices and Gifts of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered Presbyterians.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;(second panel)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;KATHLEEN'S STORY CONTINUES..&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On March 24, 2001, Kathleen announced to the Presbytery of Albany her decision to leave the Presbyterian Church (USA).  These are her words:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It's become clear that I need to continue to be faithful to God's call I don't need others to agree with me - but I do need to have enough space to respond in obedience to God's call.  Recent actions in this presbytery and beyond indicate that space for me to serve is tenuous these days and so, after much prayer, I realized I needed to leave the PC(USA)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Leaving violates my theology of covenant, but deeper than that is being faithful to God&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kathleen is now a member of the United Church of Christ denomination, and serves as chaplain at St. Lawrence University, Canton, NY.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Godspeed, Kathleen!!&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;This is one of my favorite stoles.  It's proof that, despite all the pain and loss we've known, this movement still has a sense of humor.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At about eleven feet in total length and one foot wide, this is the largest stole in the collection.  Kathleen, herself, is just a bit over five feet tall.  A member of the Troy church told me that they chose to make a stole that would "reflect her personality and her preaching style, not her stature!"  On the Sunday that her stole was to be dedicated, Kathleen was invited to preach and preside over communion.  Undaunted, she wore the stole throughout the service, proudly pinning it to her shoulders and hoisting it up when necessary.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Big letters running the full length of one panel read, "GOD IS WILD!"  Indeed, Kathleen embodies the spirit of our wildly inclusive God.  A bright, inspiring, shaker-and-mover, Kathleen eventually felt stifled by the Presbyterian Church's seemingly endless bickering and debate over her place, and the place of her LGBT sisters and brothers, in the church.  In 2001 she finally left the denomination and was received as a pastor in the United Church of Christ.  Clearly it was the Presbyterian Church's loss and the UCC's gain.  On the day of the presbytery meeting at which she formally took leave for the UCC, her many friends and allies from the Troy church once again showed their support by standing with her and celebrating the renewal of her call to a more welcoming denomination.  To mark this transition, they sent a second story to be added alongside the original one on her stole.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Martha Juillerat&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Founder, Shower of Stoles Project&lt;br /&gt;2006&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;FOR LOVE&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;MORE LIGHT&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kathy&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;This is one of about thirty stoles donated to the collection by First Presbyterian Church of Palo Alto.  First Palo Alto, a More Light congregation, has for decades been on the forefront of the movement for full inclusion of LGBT persons into the life and leadership of the church and greater society.  Among the many leaders of the movement who have come from this congregation is Mitzi Henderson, former national President of PFLAG and national Co-Moderator of More Light Presbyterians.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A photo of this stole, with the words "FOR LOVE" visible in the hands of someone who is reading the stole at a display, is on the cover of &lt;em&gt;The Shower of Stoles Project&lt;/em&gt;, a booklet about the stoles collection published in early 2000.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Martha Juillerat&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Founder, Shower of Stoles Project&lt;br /&gt;2006&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;This is one of 52 stoles donated to the Shower of Stoles collection by members and staff of Church of the Covenant.  Although each of the stoles is unique, all of them are tied together by the inclusion of a piece cloth from a common bolt of blue and ivory material somewhere in the stole.  Covenant is both a More Light and Open and Affirming Congregation.  Their strong and public advocacy on behalf of LGBT persons in the life and leadership of the church has drawn many LBGT persons to become a part of the Covenant church family.  Their 52 stoles represent the largest subset of stoles given to the collection by any one congregation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Church of the Covenant, a federated United Church of Christ and Presbyterian Church, is steeped in history.  Located just off the Boston Commons, the Gothic revival building erected in the mid-1800's was one of the first churches built in the Back Bay area.  In the 1890's the sanctuary was completely redecorated by Tiffany Glass and Decorating Co., including the creation of an extraordinary set of Tiffany stained-glass windows and a chandelier that is said to be the first electrified light installed in a public building by Thomas Edison.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Covenant's history of social justice and human rights work is equally rich.  When I visited Covenant, I was intrigued to learn that the church was a designated stop along the "Boston Women's Heritage Trail."  One of Covenant's members, Abbie Child, was the head of the Women's Board of Missions of the Congregational Church in the late 1800's.  Another member, Dr. Elsa Meder, was one of the first women ordained as an elder in the Presbyterian Church.  Elizabeth Rice and Alice Hageman, ordained in 1974 and 1975 respectively, were the first women to serve as pastors at a Back Bay church.  When they were joined by Donna Day Lower, the church became the only one in the United States with three women clergy.  Since opening the "Women's Lunch Place" in 1982, the church has served as a haven for poor women and their children.  It is fitting, then, that one of the Tiffany windows is "Four Women of the Bible," including Miriam, Deborah, Mary of Bethany, and Dorcas.  Covenant remains on the forefront of work for equality and justice, and is active in the LGBT Welcoming movement in the Boston area and beyond.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Martha Juillerat&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Founder, Shower of Stoles Project&lt;br /&gt;2006&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Martha Juillerat&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Founder, Shower of Stoles Project&lt;br /&gt;2006&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;For those who still remain unsettled in their total acceptance of their true inner being.  May they find the strength and courage to live a free and open life, and to enjoy their free spirit.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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&lt;p&gt;This is one of about thirty stoles donated to the collection by First Presbyterian Church of Palo Alto.  Katie is a child in the congregation; her stole is decorated with simple felt shapes, including a cross, and her first name.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First Palo Alto, a More Light congregation, has for decades been on the forefront of the movement for full inclusion of LGBT persons into the life and leadership of the church and greater society.  Among the many leaders of the movement who have come from this congregation is Mitzi Henderson, former national President of PFLAG and national Co-Moderator of More Light Presbyterians.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Martha Juillerat&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;Founder, Shower of Stoles Project&lt;br /&gt;2006&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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Susan Halcomb Craig</text>
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&lt;p&gt;Keisha has served on the board of Seventh-day Adventist Kinship International, the peer support group for current and former LGBTQIA Seventh-day Adventists and allies, participates in Adventist congregations in Maryland and New York and appears in the dialogue film on faith, gender, and sexuality in theologically conservative traditions,&lt;span&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://enoughroomfilm.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener"&gt;Enough Room at the Table&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
&lt;p&gt;Keisha now lives in Maryland and Harlem, New York City.&lt;/p&gt;&#13;
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;…there was something in particular you recall around a particular gift or perspective or role that someone in particular played within the group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Well, Alfred Torrie was a very well-rounded psychiatrist.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  He published a lot.  I found a lot of books published by him.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Yes.  And so he brought a lot of common sense as well as psychiatric experience.  I think that…who was it now?  The lady.  Oh, yes, Lotte.  I think Lotte had tended almost to specialize in [sexually distressed] people…I don’t think her practice was entirely all around.  I think that she had a sort of Mother Teresa feeling about her patients.  Oh, I think I sent her somebody, somebody in my meeting who I thought was gay, and finally…I can’t remember at what stage in my existence, but this was, I think, before all this stuff came out.  But he went along to Lotte and it changed his life, I mean, it was wonderful.  But that’s the sort of thing that she really did.  She would take people out of their nest of misery, and it was quite often sexual, so that she almost developed, so to speak, in psychiatry, a corner in sexuality, rather as John Mortimer and I had, in the law, a corner in indecency. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So Alfred Torrie was a good psychiatric all around-er.  Lotte Rosenberg was an absolute gift to people who were crushed by sexual troubles.  Mervyn Parry was a very normal sort of guy.  He had this interesting triangular situation.  But the fact that he was at a borstal, of course, so he had had England’s toughest young crooks.  The borstal institutions were institutions for young prisoners, and if you went to borstal you were more or less marked for life as an offender.  It didn’t do your resumé any good.  But anyway, so he will have got quite a bit from that. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kenneth Nicholson, oh, of course, Friends School Saffron Walden, where my daughter was later to go.  I’d forgotten Kenneth.  Well, that’s interesting.  You know, really, these things come back.  As a headmaster—and I don’t remember that he had any particular interest in gayness, particularly, while I’m at it—but he was running a liberal Friends boarding school, which was not quite a public school in the English sense.  I’m trying to think whether it was or not.  No, I don’t think so.  The one at Reading was, Leighton Park. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There was a very posh school and they used to play football with Eton College and so on.  Saffron Walden was a little bit out in the sticks, and it was more liberal, very intelligent.  And he just had the experience, I suppose, that a headmaster must have, of how teenagers…  By the time you’re 14, you’re what you’re going to be the rest of your life, let’s face it, so he had people who were even 17 and 18, never mind 14, so he could see their paths and where they were going, and no doubt he knew something about their troubles.  I mean, he was a sympathetic sort of guy. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Joyce James was simply…she was unable to attend during the last year.  I wonder if she was sick.  That’s possible.  But she was just a charming, ordinary, but I think it was her ordinariness which was really her claim.  I mean, we wanted somebody who didn’t have any particular specialty.  Alastair Heron.  He survived a long time.  Very well-known Friend.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;   He was quite prominent, yes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Yes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  He and Anna Bidder and Kenneth Barnes have entries in Wikipedia. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Yes, that’s right.  They’re all mentioned because he [Alastair Heron] was the general editor of this thing.  I’d forgotten that.  So that he was finally responsible for collating it.  It’s an administrative job, isn’t it?  He was finally responsible for collating the various suggestions and seeing that they got into some sort of form where they could be discussed at the next meeting. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Richard Fox was a wonderfully bouncy guy, yes.  A very confident psychiatrist.  Maudsley Hospital.  He was good.  And of course he was younger.  He was nearer my—he was probably about six years older.  How old was I?  Let me see.  In 1957 I would have been 25.  Well, he could have been 31 or 34 or something.  And he just had a…he was one of these busy psychiatrists who sees an awful lot of patients.  He can’t have been a Freudian.  You know, [he saw folks] for just two or three sessions and that kind of thing. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anna Bidder, research work and teacher.  She’s very humble here.  Teacher in zoology.  My goodness.  Had she not refused such things on principle, she would have certainly been Dame Anna Bidder long before she died, and I imagine she had been specifically invited, because she founded Cavendish College, which is…I mean, almost singlehanded.  But that was an amazing thing to do.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W:&lt;/strong&gt; Then the other thing that happened was that by the time we got to 1955, when I left Cambridge, I had a pretty good idea – and I felt here being a Quaker was a huge advantage – that I could see that there was a definite section of the undergraduates who regarded themselves as gay, period, a lot of whom, of course, I knew.  I would meet them at these gay parties and so on.  And there were two or three much older people who would [lived at] Trinity Farm I remember, yeah.  There were one or two people who were connected with the university, or who were dons at it who were also gay and could be seen at parties. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But I realized that there was a problem, because nobody was admitting that these two realities, the heterosexual world, where nobody had heard of homosexuality, at least not in any acceptable sense, I began to realize that there were these two worlds which had no connection with each other.  That the Saturday night gay party, in my case, could be followed by a Quaker meeting in the morning, in which one would have thought that sex didn’t exist. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So I somehow felt, because I think hypocrisy is one of the main things which Quakerism has triumphed over, that I had some kind of duty to see if I could make a bridge here.  And I did it quite accidentally, because a group of us Young Friends from Cambridge went off to Woodbrooke one Christmas for a Christmas retreat.  Woodbrooke is the-- [Friends’ Center at Birmingham, a kind of urban Pendle Hill].&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Neil F:&lt;/strong&gt; Yes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W:&lt;/strong&gt; And we started a conversation.  That’s right, I and another gay guy called Donald Thomas started a conversation at the top of the stairs there.  There’s about three flights of stairs.  And we obviously didn’t want to leave off, because it was becoming very interesting.  We were each coming out to the other and discussing the problems of it.  But everybody on the staircase apparently could hear this, which is not surprising, entirely.  We both had clear voices, and the staircase had that sort of good acoustics.  So I think a lot of people after that were onto the fact that there was something happening. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And then there was something else.  I noticed that there was a tendency – we get about six suicides a year at Cambridge, or we did at that time, and I decided that a rather significant number of these were because people were gay and couldn’t deal with it.  I mean, they had just reached the end. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There was one guy called Roger Walker, who was a young, somewhat effeminate and very much lacking in stability type guy, very bright, of course.  I can’t remember who he pursued, and I assume he had some successes.  And I didn’t find him attractive myself.  But I went to find him one morning, about the spring of  ‘55, and walked straight into his room, where there was a slight smell of coal gas, and there he was, pink and dead.  He had put his head in the oven. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And that made me come out, in a way, because they had an inquest at which nobody seemed to know quite what he was up to.  And I explained to the parents in advance that he was gay – not using that word, I expect, at the time – and that…oh, maybe I did. But anyway, and that he was extremely worried and depressed about it all, and that that’s why he had committed suicide.  He didn’t leave a note.  And with their permission and consent, I volunteered, in the middle of the inquest to the coroner, that I knew something about it and was willing to give evidence, which I did. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And the thing I mainly remember about it – I mean, I explained the situation to the coroner in fairly simple terms.  By that time I felt able to do that.  And the police were furious, because I hadn’t given them a statement about this, and so they were put out of face.  And I can remember them threatening afterwards.  The guy who had supplied the witnesses to the coroner and the witnesses’ statements and so on, I mean, he really was quite threatening.  He said if ever you want to say this kind of thing, you must see me first, or something like that.  So I realized that the police are part of the hypocritical setup.&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  The group did go public in May of 1960—&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Yes, we said a few things—&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;   —by printing a concern in &lt;em&gt;The Friend&lt;/em&gt;, and it said—and I wonder who wrote that—and then a month later you had a one-day conference, and there was subsequently a lot of letters to &lt;em&gt;The Friend&lt;/em&gt;, so you kind of, the group went public.  Was there a particular reason for doing that?  Do you recall where you were in the process?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  We just thought a progress report might interest Friends, which it did.  Duncan Fairn wrote it, and I think he came out first with the title &lt;em&gt;Towards a Quaker View of Sex&lt;/em&gt;, a sort of slightly wry title.  And so that came out, and that, of course, was written out of the stage that we had got to.  We were at a fairly early stage.  We were sort of Neanderthal man at that point, but nevertheless, we were making progress, and I imagine that he…I forget his letter now, but I imagine he let the cat out of the bag in the sense that he was saying we’re looking at this as a different morality, so that caused some correspondence and so on, which we considered, but we didn’t feel any of it needed answering. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We didn’t indulge in, as the National Rifle Association does, having a spokesperson produce some beautifully worded—you know, they’re very good at this.  We just went on with our work in the library of the Women’s University Club.  And those Friends who said the—when he wrote, of course, he hadn’t read what we had so far written, and neither did we offer to give it to him. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But a lot of people were disturbed at any thought that the ancient, ancien regime might fall.  People like structure.  Any change, especially of mind, any change is horrific to contemplate, so if you’re brought up in any system—and England is very programmed compared to America—if you’re brought up in any system, you don’t want it destroyed.  For one thing, you may have suffered greatly in order to keep it going, or you may have felt that you set a good example by how much it had cost you in pain and agony of hanging onto the same relationship, for instance, long after it was over or something.  So all those people had an investment in nothing changing. &lt;/p&gt;</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  You mentioned in the other interview that the group met once a month at the University Women’s Club, had lunch together in the library.  Was it the same date each month?  Did you schedule a day each month?  Do you know how that evolved, how that started?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.  &lt;/strong&gt; We scheduled it, obviously, according to whether people were all going to be on holiday, or whether our prime members were.  We could obviously stand meeting without one or two, but to lose more than that out of the 11 would have been sad, so we just fitted it to needs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  So it was a different day of the week?  It wasn’t the third Sunday, or something like that?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  No.  It might well have been at the weekend, because most of the group, including me, were working.  I couldn’t attend a thing which met on Friday or Thursday.  It must have been always at a weekend, possibly Sunday.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B. &lt;/strong&gt; I saw a reference—I think it was in David’s work—that you always began with worship, that that was the beginning of your time together.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Oh, yeah, sure, sure.  We gathered in a very Quaker manner.  We had time.  We didn’t have to start talking as soon as we sat down.  And so we could start with a few minutes of silence with a little worship and finish the same way, in the Quaker tradition.  I mean, this is how all our committees function.  And the difference between a committee, so to speak, and meeting for worship, as such, the church meeting on a Sunday morning, is that you can eat through committee meetings, but you’re not supposed to chew sandwiches during meeting for worship.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  You met for a couple of hours, an hour, three hours?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Oh, no.  It would have been most of the day.  I mean, we would have met at 9:00 or 10:00 and had lunch at the University Women’s Club and then continued afterwards until, I don’t know, 4:00 or 5:00, that kind of thing.  I see that I was the treasurer of the organization shortly after I got there.  You can see all sorts of things which give away very much how we did and what we paid for and all that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  Excellent.  And the early period, people came and gave presentations?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Oh, yes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  How did you start addressing the subject?  Where did you get your information from?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W. &lt;/strong&gt; Well, we thought that we were sort of trawling on a random basis, but boy, it got better than that.  But we thought we’d have some, I don’t know, police officers or some probation officers, or some psychiatrists that weren’t already in the group, or a whole range of professional people, in the wide sense—probation officers, nurses, whatever—but people who would be likely to have some knowledge in right of their job, so that they didn’t feel that we were summoning them because we thought they were or might be gay.  I mean, that didn’t come into it. &lt;/p&gt;</text>
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              <text>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  Can you say a little more just—I’m curious about how you write with a committee of 11.  How did the writing unfold?  Did you have an outline?  Did people write sections and brought them to the group?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Yes, yes, yes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  How did that happen?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  At the end of each session—as far as I can remember—I haven’t read through this again, but as far as I can remember, at the end of the session, we would consider whether we would now add something, or add a chapter, or have a draft chapter as a result of the day.  That, of course, doesn’t, by any means, happen every week, or every month or anything else, but it did happen.  And then somebody would say, okay.  It didn’t matter who did it at all, so somebody would write it and circulate it to the group, and we’d then come back next time and tear it apart and discuss it and produce something that we all agreed on, which was a lovely process because one of the charms of the Society of Friends is you’re allowed to change your mind. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And so we could work it through until we had genuinely convinced each other of what it should say, and some things got altered quite a lot and some didn’t much.  I, in fact, was asked to write the complete chapter on homosexuality, and not much of that actually didn’t get through.  I mean, that was—but of course it had been in my head for something like 15 years.  I could just sit down and write what the Emperor Hadrian or somebody thought.  Which one was it?  Anyway, it’s in the book.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  Right, you quote that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Constantine, or was it…it doesn’t matter.  Anyway, there’s some emperor who thought that sodomy caused earthquakes or something.  But all that was from actually reading Gibbon’s &lt;em&gt;Decline and Fall&lt;/em&gt; when I was in Canada.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  Did you write other sections?  You wrote that section.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  No, I wrote that, but, I mean, they had a hand in chipping at it, of course, and I’m only saying that most of it survived.  I still see my own words.  They probably took out some bits.  But the same thing happened with them.  We all, or I’m sure most of us, at any rate, volunteered to write a chunk.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  Do you actually recall who was the major writer of the different sections?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Sorry?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  Do you recall who was the major writer of the different sections?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  Oh, I see.  If you hand it back a moment, it might come back.  That’s going to be difficult because of the very—&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Mark B.&lt;/strong&gt;  And it may not—&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Keith W.&lt;/strong&gt;  —[lack of] ego and vanity involved.  It wouldn’t make any difference who wrote what, as far as we were concerned.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Mark B.&lt;span&gt;           &lt;/span&gt;Can you say a little more just—I’m curious about how you write with a committee of 11.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How did the writing unfold?&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Did you have an outline?&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Did people write sections and brought them to the group?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Keith W.&lt;span&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;Yes, yes, yes.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Mark B.&lt;span&gt;           &lt;/span&gt;How did that happen?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Keith W.&lt;span&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;At the end of each session—as far as I can remember—I haven’t read through this again, but as far as I can remember, at the end of the session, we would consider whether we would now add something, or add a chapter, or have a draft chapter as a result of the day.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That, of course, doesn’t, by any means, happen every week, or every month or anything else, but it did happen.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;And then somebody would say, okay.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It didn’t matter who did it at all, so somebody would write it and circulate it to the group, and we’d then come back next time and tear it apart and discuss it and produce something that we all agreed on, which was a lovely process because one of the charms of the Society of Friends is you’re allowed to change your mind.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;And so we could work it through until we had genuinely convinced each other of what it should say, and some things got altered quite a lot and some didn’t much.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I, in fact, was asked to write the complete chapter on homosexuality, and not much of that actually didn’t get through.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I mean, that was—but of course it had been in my head for something like 15 years.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I could just sit down and write what the Emperor Hadrian or somebody thought.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Which one was it?&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Anyway, it’s in the book.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Mark B.&lt;span&gt;           &lt;/span&gt;Right, you quote that.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Keith W.&lt;span&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;Constantine, or was it…it doesn’t matter.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Anyway, there’s some emperor who thought that sodomy caused earthquakes or something.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;But all that was from actually reading Gibbon’s &lt;em&gt;Decline and Fall&lt;/em&gt; when I was in Canada.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Mark B.&lt;span&gt;           &lt;/span&gt;Did you write other sections?&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;You wrote that section.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Keith W.&lt;span&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;No, I wrote that, but, I mean, they had a hand in chipping at it, of course, and I’m only saying that most of it survived.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I still see my own words.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They probably took out some bits.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;But the same thing happened with them.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We all, or I’m sure most of us, at any rate, volunteered to write a chunk.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Mark B.&lt;span&gt;           &lt;/span&gt;Do you actually recall who was the major writer of the different sections?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Keith W.&lt;span&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;Sorry?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Mark B.&lt;span&gt;           &lt;/span&gt;Do you recall who was the major writer of the different sections?&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Keith W.&lt;span&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;Oh, I see.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If you hand it back a moment, it might come back.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That’s going to be difficult because of the very—&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Mark B.&lt;span&gt;           &lt;/span&gt;And it may not—&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:1in;text-indent:-1in;line-height:200%;"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:200%;"&gt;Keith W.&lt;span&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;—[lack of] ego and vanity involved.&lt;span&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It wouldn’t make any difference who wrote what, as far as we were concerned.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</text>
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                <text>Keith Wedmore talks about writing the study.</text>
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                <text>Keith Wedmore talks about group collaborating in writing the study.</text>
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                <text>From March 20, 2013 interview with Mark Bowman.</text>
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